Eventually you have to make that leap or you arent ever going to get your hands on that other bar. "http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdfWorth a read, Lisa. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. at By contrast high performers have a fairly accurate self assessment, but are slightly self critical of themselves as well as others. Is this confirmed? After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. What worked well and what really horked things up for you? Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. Senior Product and Strategy Director, AI/ML - LinkedIn Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. Is it easier to level up in smaller groups (v1 product)? The point here is that I have more than once seen folks that were very talented and super stars get bumped for someone less talented but more vocal. The last thing I would ever think about is what my boss thinks of me; I just don't care. You will not know the difference. All these comments apply generally to any matured company and life in general. The downside to this view within the Microsoft culture is that you are always expected to keep climbing the ladder even if you are content with your current job and a solid performer in it. Few others are long time softies who have been doing average to good job for very long time (3-7 years) without getting any promos. Most are management types whose only skill is sucking up. Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. About 1/2 the team is staying, the other half is going to a number of different teams within the larger org. great post mini. New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. Here's to you! Contributed and exceeded in two roles - getting G-Star, then moved to another team with clear headroom and again, exceeded all commits and moved to L64. I think your comments on level 63 were interesting. Eng, Go to company page Exceptional Director, hardworking, reliable, efficient, a team player, flexible to work 24 hours shift rota, prioritise my workload at all time, managing customers and team, managing safely, ability to carry out Risk Assessments and how to manage such Risks to minimal, excellent report written skills, excellent communicate skills both verbal and written forms including presentation using . A mentor helps tremendously. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? I moved around 3 teams before I found one where I really enjoyed the technology and the people, and here I've flourished.So forget all the whining about politics and crap. What are other groups doing? you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. . That is the guy to beat. Propose a new one and spend a day in implementing it. It's a lot better than folks being ambivalent about your success or failure, right? There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. If you think you will follow the management career path then get in such role as early as possible. You can forge a great partnership and accomplish a lot. If it is, awesome -- go do it, drive it to completion. There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. And what is happening now trying to move up after becoming a Dev Manager? Impossible. Great Post! If it isn't, well don't waste everyone's time building the wrong thing.When you think of it this way, you'll anticipate what your manager needs, you'll anticipate what your skip-level needs, and you'll be doing what they need even before they know they need it. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. At the beginning of each FY, I always asked, "I want to get Exceeded this year. The job is the same, just the levelling differs. "There is no greater de-motivator than a reward system that is perceived to be unfair. Ready? We had a strategic plan for getting me the visibility with the higher-ups that I needed.My promotion to Level 65 during the last annual review period was clearly the hardest. Hired at L58 in 2000 - Currently L62 and the last 2 promos were at 18mo intervals. For instance, software development engineers generally come in at Level 59,. L63 takes a bit longer but is also fast. It's usually too late at that point. You will never get your promotion on a silver platter. Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. If you're not an Absolutely! The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. Despite the fact you may be totally right, you can inadvertently be viewed as a negative person.Although your bosses are probably aware of the problems, they might be overwhelmed by the scope of the situation, and start getting annoyed at you for being the person always reminding them about the flaws. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. It inspired me to write the following dissertation on the subject in hopes that it will be helpful. .css-1uhsr4o{margin-right:8px;}Get Paid, Not Played. If you think of it as "How can I do better than my manager?" Any idea on when is this going to change? These are sole individual personal points-of-view and the posts and comments by the participants in no way represent the official point-of-view of Microsoft or any other organization. Julien Belin - Senior Director Global Supply Chain - LinkedIn Tech savvy yet entrepreneurship minded hence able to see things from . Punit Bhatia - Director - Sales - Apar Innosys Pte ltd | LinkedIn Any idea on when is this going to change? Establish SD/VSTF branching steering committee and send out monthly report. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. And I'm going to tell you right now, I'm 99.9% sure what needs to change is you. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. I think that a compentent dev not a superstar, who follows your advice should make it to 63. Senior Director Advanced Technical Services - Careers At SCS Global I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. My boss even made mistakes. That sounded like a complete crock to me. Don't obsess over what is in front of you. Somebody help me out here. If youve been at Level 62 longer than about 3 years MS may not be the best fit for you and you should probably be considering other options.kc. But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. Without soft skills, you can't make 64 and certainly no chance at 65.I've seen many people transfer into MCS, level up, and then transfer out basically using it as a boost. Thanks to Mini for the great information. Over 20 years of experience in professional services including, architecture, corporate real estate, and integrated facility management, operating at a global and regional level. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. "Shock and awe awaits" is correct. Got lucky on that one!!!! Of course not. Go and restart in another org and dig through their historical biz and people stability during your informationals. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well. keep in mind mentors are not one size fit's all. Former is work of many years and long nights and proven track record while later is basically your ability to bullshit through 6 interviews. May 2008: Gold Star. VP has to find the 10 devs from some other less attractive project. Let's Hear it for the Boy! Seniority level Director Employment type Full-time Job function Management and Manufacturing Industries IT Services and IT Consulting, Computer Hardware Manufacturing, and Software Development. This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. Can someone explain to me the leadership hierarchy | Fishbowl Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. The L65 guys are expected to influence outcomes, strategy and best practices on their entire VP level groups. Happy hunting. That is, an S-shaped curve that is relatively flat at the bottom (slow start), then becomes very steep (steep acceleration), then becomes relatively flat again (plateau). B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. Don't spend so much time worrying about the next notch on the ladder: your goal should be to learn new things, to get something cool done and to find things to do that are fun for you.2. then the follow-up is: after what accomplishments and around when? Leak of Microsoft Salaries Shows Fight for Higher Compensation In short there are lot many ways to influence others and infect the best ones are not being a manager :). At L63 you should be directing v-teams, serving as a lead or possibly even having direct reports. (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. Managers plan out promotion timeframes far in advance. Over the years, we have acted as a preferred talent acquisition partner to. If you can learn to do this you become incredibly valuable.5. a Data Scientist 1. But my manager is communicating to me that it is very hard and I am likely to show patience for another year or two.I do not know how to confirm this without looking like whining. Wow. I take a creative approach to accelerating business transformation as a . IMHO. It's not easy. Shock and awe awaits [sic].Four errors in grammar and punctuation in a post of just 14 words? HC-freeze is already in motion, as is serioius savings in all FSC/COS - only thing still not explored is layoffs. I think that a lot of what you wrote was spot on, although the situation varies somewhat across the company. Similarly, the best predictor of your success at the next level is your success at the current level! Promotion to 63 happened to me 2 years ago when I helped ship Office 2007. That's the wall you need to talk about, but the discussion would be very different than the L63 bump.And after 5+ years at L64, I finally just left. Full stop. I had an expectation to become principal this year. You should leave. Whenever his lead would ask him to do X he would refuse and insist on doing Y instead. To the person worried about being same level for 3.5 years don't sweat it. Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer. A mistake was a huge cost. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. It can help you identify blind spots which may be holding you back.7. Executive Officers - Stories I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. Amazon Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". "2) Peel the onion. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.Take the challenge and go after tough problems. I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. What advice do you have to pass on? I'm interested in hearing your stories of success, mentorship, and turning a career that was off-path back on-track. Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. In this scenario, the senior director might have more responsibilities and be in charge of a larger part of the organization than a typical director. When I gave notice, my PUM was in my office within an hour showing me stock levels at 65 and 66, willing to restructure my position pretty much to my liking. When someone gives you the hard advice to succeed, it's quite the gift. You'd do well to read it again:Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage. What got you here ain't gonna get you there. After all, they are thinking through if you will be a good peer and will be easy to work with (and make their lives better in some way). I have had 3 positions in the past 8 years and best advise i can give is NETWORKING. Folks, Im really encouraged by this post and the focus on trying to help make others great. >Real HR managers from Microsoft would have just three [sic]s in a post of that length.I hope HR gets cut. This is usually how teams start to rot from the inside. As HR Director, Claire helps drive the outstanding business impact, cultural transformation, and growth of Microsoft in the UK. I suggest understanding why it is "No" first, truthfully accepting the point-of-view as pissed off as it may make you, and then having a self-directed action-plan to get on track. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. Those teams I used to despise as a L60, and only tolerate as a 63? You must emphasize the goal of understanding how to improve, not just tagging a higher paycheck. Or at least, more transparent feedback was communicated so you had a real idea of where your career was heading. He identified the common denominators in becoming an expert in practically any field. So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. I joined The Company 2 weeks ago, far from 63, but all you said it's very valuable for defining a career path. My likely response would be "congratulations! Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. Secondly, finding a suitable mentor to help them overcome that weakness. Skip-levels will not tolerate people who are not team players.Finally if your manager is new or at your level, the strategy is the same. The soft skills definitely matter. It doesnt matter if the system is fair or not. Bowl Leader. And to your boss. Don't make promises to follow up on things and then let them drop. But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far. Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. Maybe one boss likes to see a lot of code written, and another settles for less code, but fewer bugs. Calibrations are like a brick wall, even in regard to comments made about you. Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. Yet, I know that a friend just got one. Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. You can be a genius of blinding brilliance, but if you come from a boring product team, you "don't have much potential". You first have to be truthful with what direction you're going in and where you actually are trying to head. Let's Hear it for the Girl! Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. No, L7 is 66-67. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. After that I got 3 levels in 3 years and now at level 64. No one wants an employee who is staying for the money -- and you don't want to be that employee, either. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). I'm there. The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).Yes, L64->L65 transition is REALLY big deal but directly joining MS at L65 as new FTE is not a big deal and there are usually ample of open positions. Duuuude, your boss is the way to your promotion. This is a really awesome post. A broad perspective matters.3) This is all about stack rank. Google, Go to company page Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? I spent 5 years on level 61. I definitely want to read more soon.Sincerely yoursSteave Markson. The microsoft people have already decided you're not a good 'fit'. What an achievement! You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. Had I only known this info when I started at Microsoft. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. This makes it very easy to feel underleveled, because the 6 people that started 3 weeks before you might take up the 2 promotion spots available per year for 3 years (numbers all made up).You also, at least in my experience, aren't really given feedback on when you're performing at a level that *could* be promoted. And do you anticipate what happened when I made the next move to Dev Manager position? You forgot "never ask for a promotion".The one other thing that helped me go from L59 through >L64 was an absolute dedication to the strongest leaders, one level at a time. Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. Being a TS can work the same way. more often than not it is up to the employee to use the resources, show maturity and commonsense and move up62 -> 63 is difficult and there is a reason behind it. I am currently going to school which should help the moves to a better position. One of the key lessons is to know who is the gate keeper for your career. Your analysis is very true, specially the part about owning the room and be regarded as the domain expert. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. Within the comments, I hope to elicit advice that follows up on what I start here, and maybe even contradicts it. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. Microsoft - Director, Level 65 at Microsoft | Glassdoor After that, I was given a team that was dysfunctional and the most problematic area of the product - now its the area that customers rave about and the team is running smoothly.The bottom line is that takes (1) very hard work (2) you need to build your skills (3) personality to drive the solution in spite of the process and (4) demand excellence from others - including managing out those that will never deliver quality (some folks are net losses to the team).I always hear the whining from folks that get stuck at level 62/63 but when those tough challenges are out there, they don't volunteer and they certainly don't go looking for the biggest challenges. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it Microsoft: Citi Cuts Ests, Target On PC Slowdown. don't make enemies), change jobs about once every 3-4 years, and do your job reasonably wellfor a decade. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. I am a troll. I dont know why this is the case. I think one of the things that is frustrating is how opaque the promotion system really is. Founded in 1969 by Dr. Bish Agrawal, ABC Consultants is the pioneer of organized recruitment services in India. Key member of the senior management team contributing to the formulation of the company's future direction and supporting tactical initiatives Drive the annual budget process, monthly. "Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. Say that you will understand if your manager thinks you aren't ready. A Principal-level employee at Microsoft is someone who drives strategic efforts in their area of expertise. Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies.
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